---
created_at: '2016-09-22T07:38:19.000Z'
title: 'Linus on btime: “Let’s wait five years” (2010)'
url: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1007.2/02325.html
author: wener
points: 73
story_text: 
comment_text: 
num_comments: 40
story_id: 
story_title: 
story_url: 
parent_id: 
created_at_i: 1474529899
_tags:
- story
- author_wener
- story_12555160
objectID: '12555160'
year: 2010

---
[Source](http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1007.2/02325.html "Permalink to Linux-Kernel Archive: Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extended file stats available [ver #6]")

# Linux-Kernel Archive: Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extended file stats available [ver #6]

# Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extended file stats available [ver #6]

**From: **Linus Torvalds   
**Date: ** Thu Jul 22 2010 - 11:16:18 EST 
* **Next message: ** [ Milton Miller: "[PATCH] setlocalversion: fix version for untaged nontip mercurial revs"][1]
* **Previous message: ** [ Kenji Kaneshige: "Re: [PATCH] x86: ioremap: fix wrong physical address handling inPAT code"][2]
* **In reply to: ** [ Jan Engelhardt: "Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extendedfile stats available [ver #6]"][3]
* **Next in thread: ** [ Volker Lendecke: "Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to makeextended file stats available [ver #6]"][4]
* **Messages sorted by: [**[ date ]][5] [[ thread ]][6] [[ subject ]][7] [[ author ]][8]
* * *

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Volker Lendecke  
<Volker.Lendecke@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:  
>_ On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:14:47PM +0100, David Howells wrote:_  
>_> Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:_  
>_>_  
>_> > Linux already has a creation time field, it's called otime (there is no "b"_  
>_> > in "creation"), and you will find scattered fragments of that all over the_  
>_> > kernel (foremost, fs/jfs/, now btrfs, and I also notice sysvipc having_  
>_> > something with that name)._  
>_>_  
>_> It is?  It's called crtime in Ext4.  st_btime, however, would be compatible_  
>_> with BSD's stat, and Samba would just use it by way of autoconf magic if it_  
>_> appeared._  
>__  
>_ Samba has the following check:_  
>__  
>_ # recent FreeBSD, NetBSD have creation timestamps called birthtime:_  
>_ AC_CHECK_MEMBERS([struct stat.st_birthtimespec.tv_nsec])_  
>_ AC_CHECK_MEMBERS([struct stat.st_birthtime], AC_CHECK_MEMBERS([struct stat.st_birthtimensec]))_  
>__  
>_ and the supporting code around that. "birth" might also be_  
>_ where the "b" comes from :-)_  
  
Oh wow. And all of this just convinces me that we should _not_ do any  
of this, since clearly it's all totally useless and people can't even  
agree on a name.  
  
Let's wait five years and see if there is actually any consensus on it  
being needed and used at all, rather than rush into something just  
because "we can".  
  
Linus  
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* * *
* **Next message: ** [ Milton Miller: "[PATCH] setlocalversion: fix version for untaged nontip mercurial revs"][1]
* **Previous message: ** [ Kenji Kaneshige: "Re: [PATCH] x86: ioremap: fix wrong physical address handling inPAT code"][2]
* **In reply to: ** [ Jan Engelhardt: "Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extendedfile stats available [ver #6]"][3]
* **Next in thread: ** [ Volker Lendecke: "Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to makeextended file stats available [ver #6]"][4]
* **Messages sorted by: [**[ date ]][5] [[ thread ]][6] [[ subject ]][7] [[ author ]][8]

[1]: http://lkml.iu.edu/02326.html
[2]: http://lkml.iu.edu/02324.html
[3]: http://lkml.iu.edu/02269.html
[4]: http://lkml.iu.edu/02332.html
[5]: http://lkml.iu.edu/date.html#02325
[6]: http://lkml.iu.edu/index.html#02325
[7]: http://lkml.iu.edu/subject.html#02325
[8]: http://lkml.iu.edu/author.html#02325