2018-02-23 18:58:03 +00:00
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---
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created_at: '2017-05-14T22:20:55.000Z'
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title: E. B. White, the Art of the Essay No. 1 (1969)
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url: https://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4155/the-art-of-the-essay-no-1-e-b-white
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author: samclemens
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points: 56
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story_text:
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comment_text:
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num_comments: 7
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story_id:
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story_title:
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story_url:
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parent_id:
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created_at_i: 1494800455
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_tags:
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- story
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- author_samclemens
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- story_14337870
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objectID: '14337870'
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2018-06-08 12:05:27 +00:00
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year: 1969
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2018-02-23 18:58:03 +00:00
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---
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2018-03-03 09:35:28 +00:00
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Interviewed by George Plimpton and Frank H. Crowther
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2018-02-23 18:19:40 +00:00
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2018-03-03 09:35:28 +00:00
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### Issue 48, Fall 1969
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2018-02-23 18:19:40 +00:00
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2018-03-03 09:35:28 +00:00
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![undefined](/il/c4d3ed8a12/large/EB-White.jpg "undefined")E. B. White
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and his dog Minnie.
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2018-02-23 18:19:40 +00:00
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2018-03-03 09:35:28 +00:00
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If it happens that your parents concern themselves so little with the
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workings of boys’ minds as to christen you Elwyn Brooks White, no doubt
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you decide as early as possible to identify yourself as E.B. White. If
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it also happens that you attend Cornell, whose first president was
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Andrew D. White, then, following a variant of the principle that
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everybody named Rhodes winds up being nicknamed “Dusty,” you wind up
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being nicknamed “Andy.” And so it has come about that for fifty of his
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seventy years Elwyn Brooks White has been known to his readers as E.B.
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White and to his friends as Andy. Andy White. Andy and Katharine White.
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The Whites. Andy and Katharine have been married for forty years, and in
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that time they have been separated so rarely that I find it impossible
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to think of one without the other. On the occasions when they have been
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obliged to be apart, Andy’s conversation is so likely to center on
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Katharine that she becomes all the more present for being absent.
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The Whites have shared everything, from professional association on the
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same magazine to preoccupation with a joint ill health that many of
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their friends have been inclined to regard as imaginary. Years ago, in a
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Christmas doggerel, Edmund Wilson saluted them for possessing “mens sana
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in corpore insano,” and it was always wonderful to behold the intuitive
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seesaw adjustments by which one of them got well in time for the other
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to get sick. What a mountain of good work they have accumulated in that
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fashion\! Certainly they have been the strongest and most productive
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unhealthy couple that I have ever encountered, but I no longer dare to
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make fun of their ailments. Now that age is bestowing on them a natural
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infirmity, they must be sorely tempted to say to the rest of us, “You
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see? What did we tell you?” (“Sorely,” by the way, has been a favorite
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adverb of Andy’s- a word that brims with bodily woe and that yet hints
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at the heroic: back of Andy, some dying knight out of Malory lifts his
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gleaming sword against the dusk.)
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Andy White is small and wiry, with an unexpectedly large nose, speckled
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eyes, and an air of being just about to turn away, not on an errand of
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any importance but as a means of remaining free to cut and run without
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the nuisance of prolonged good-byes. Crossing the threshold of his
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eighth decade, his person is uncannily boyish-seeming. Though his hair
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is grey, I learn at this moment that I do not consent to the fact: away
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from him, I remember it as brown, therefore it is brown to me. Andy can
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no more lose his youthfulness by the tiresome accident of growing old
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than he could ever have been Elwyn by the tiresome un-necessary accident
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of baptism; his youth and his “Andy”-ness are intrinsic and
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inexpungeable. Katharine White is a woman so good-looking that nobody
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has taken it amiss when her husband has described in print as beautiful,
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but her beauty has a touch of blue-eyed augustness in it, and her manner
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is formal. It would never occur to me to go beyond calling her
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Katharine, and I have not found it surprising when her son, Roger
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Angell, an editor of The New Yorker, refers to her within the office
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precincts as “Mrs. White.” (Roger Angell is the son of her marriage to a
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distinguished New York attorney, Ernest Angell; she and Andy have a son,
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Joe, who is a naval architect and whose boatyard is a thriving
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enterprise in the Whites’ hometown of Brooklin, Maine.)
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At the risk of reducing a man’s life to a sort of Merck’s Manual, I may
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mention that Andy White’s personal physician, Dana Atchley- giving
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characteristically short shrift to a psychosomatic view of his old
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friend- has described him as having a Rolls Royce mind in a Model T
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body. With Andy, this would pass for a compliment, because in the
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tyranny of his modesty he would always choose to be a Ford instead of a
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Rolls, but it would be closer to the truth to describe him as a Rolls
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Royce mind in a Rolls Royce body that unaccountably keeps bumping to a
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stop and humming to itself, not without infinite pleasure to others
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along the way. What he achieves must cost him a considerable effort and
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appears to cost him very little. His speaking voice, like his writing
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voice, is clear, resonant, and invincibly debonair. He wanders over the
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pastures of his Maine farm or, for that matter, along the labyrinthine
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corridors of The New Yorker offices on West Forty-Third Street with the
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off-hand grace of a dancer making up a sequence of steps that the eye
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follows with delight and that defies any but his own notation. Clues to
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the bold and delicate nature of those steps are to be discovered in
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every line he writes, but the man and his work are so nearly one that,
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try as we will, we cannot tell the dancer from the dance.
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-Brendan Gill
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INTERVIEWER
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So many critics equate the success of a writer with an unhappy
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childhood. Can you say something of your own childhood in Mount Vernon?
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E.B. WHITE
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As a child, I was frightened but not unhappy. My parents were loving and
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kind. We were a large family (six children) and were a small kingdom
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unto ourselves. Nobody ever came to dinner. My father was formal,
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conservative, successful, hardworking, and worried. My mother was
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loving, hardworking, and retiring. We lived in a large house in a leafy
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suburb, where there were backyards and stables and grape arbors. I
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lacked for nothing except confidence. I suffered nothing except the
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routine terrors of childhood: fear of the dark, fear of the future, fear
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of the return to school after a summer on a lake in Maine, fear of
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making an appearance on a platform, fear of the lavatory in the school
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basement where the slate urinals cascaded, fear that I was unknowing
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about things I should know about. I was, as a child, allergic to pollens
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and dusts, and still am. I was allergic to platforms, and still am. It
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may be, as some critics suggest, that it helps to have an unhappy
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childhood. If so, I have no knowledge of it. Perhaps it helps to have
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been scared or allergic to pollens—I don’t know.
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INTERVIEWER
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At what age did you know you were going to follow a literary profession?
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Was there a particular incident, or moment?
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WHITE
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I never knew for sure that I would follow a literary profession. I was
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twenty-seven or twenty-eight before anything happened that gave me any
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assurance that I could make a go of writing. I had done a great deal of
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writing, but I lacked confidence in my ability to put it to good use. I
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went abroad one summer and on my return to New York found an
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accumulation of mail at my apartment. I took the letters, unopened, and
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went to a Childs restaurant on Fourteenth Street, where I ordered dinner
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and began opening my mail. From one envelope, two or three checks
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dropped out, from The New Yorker. I suppose they totaled a little under
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a hundred dollars, but it looked like a fortune to me. I can still
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remember the feeling that “this was it”—I was a pro at last. It was a
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good feeling and I enjoyed the meal.
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INTERVIEWER
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What were those first pieces accepted by The New Yorker? Did you send
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them in with a covering letter, or through an agent?
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WHITE
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They were short sketches—what Ross called “casuals.” One, I think, was a
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piece called “The Swell Steerage,” about the then new college cabin
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class on transatlantic ships. I never submitted a manuscript with a
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covering letter or through an agent. I used to put my manuscript in the
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mail, along with a stamped envelope for the rejection. This was a matter
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of high principle with me: I believed in the doctrine of immaculate
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rejection. I never used an agent and did not like the looks of a
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manuscript after an agent got through prettying it up and putting it
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between covers with brass clips. (I now have an agent for such mysteries
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as movie rights and foreign translations.)
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A large part of all early contributions to The New Yorker arrived
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uninvited and unexpected. They arrived in the mail or under the arm of
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people who walked in with them. O’Hara’s “Afternoon Delphians” is one
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example out of hundreds. For a number of years, The New Yorker published
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an average of fifty new writers a year. Magazines that refuse
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unsolicited manuscripts strike me as lazy, incurious, self-assured, and
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self-important. I’m speaking of magazines of general circulation. There
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may be some justification for a technical journal to limit its list of
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contributors to persons who are known to be qualified. But if I were a
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publisher, I wouldn’t want to put out a magazine that failed to examine
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everything that turned up.
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INTERVIEWER
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But did The New Yorker ever try to publish the emerging writers of the
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time: Hemingway, Faulkner, Dos Passos, Fitzgerald, Miller, Lawrence,
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Joyce, Wolfe, et al?
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WHITE
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The New Yorker had an interest in publishing any writer that could turn
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in a good piece. It read everything submitted. Hemingway, Faulkner, and
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the others were well established and well paid when The New Yorker came
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on the scene. The magazine would have been glad to publish them, but it
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didn’t have the money to pay them off, and for the most part they didn’t
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submit. They were selling to The Saturday Evening Post and other
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well-heeled publications, and in general were not inclined to contribute
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to the small, new, impecunious weekly. Also, some of them, I would
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guess, did not feel sympathetic to The New Yorker’s frivolity. Ross had
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no great urge to publish the big names; he was far more interested in
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turning up new and yet undiscovered talent, the Helen Hokinsons and the
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James Thurbers. We did publish some things by Wolfe—“Only the Dead Know
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Brooklyn” was one. I believe we published something by Fitzgerald. But
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Ross didn’t waste much time trying to corral “emerged” writers. He was
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looking for the ones that were found by turning over a stone.
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INTERVIEWER
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What were the procedures in turning down a manuscript by a New
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Yorker regular? Was this done by Ross?
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WHITE
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The manuscript of a New Yorker regular was turned down in the same
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manner as was the manuscript of a New Yorker irregular. It was simply
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rejected, usually by the subeditor who was handling the author in
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question. Ross did not deal directly with writers and artists, except in
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the case of a few old friends from an earlier day. He wouldn’t even take
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on Woollcott—regarded him as too difficult and fussy. Ross disliked
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rejecting pieces, and he disliked firing people—he ducked both tasks
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whenever he could.
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INTERVIEWER
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Did feuds threaten the magazine?
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WHITE
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Feuds did not threaten The New Yorker. The only feud I recall was the
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running battle between the editorial department and the advertising
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department. This was largely a one-sided affair, with the editorial
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department lobbing an occasional grenade into the enemy’s lines just on
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general principles, to help them remember to stay out of sight. Ross was
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determined not to allow his magazine to be swayed, in the slightest
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degree, by the boys in advertising. As far as I know, he succeeded.
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INTERVIEWER
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When did you first move to New York, and what were some of the things
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you did before joining The New Yorker? Were you ever a part of the
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Algonquin group?
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WHITE
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After I got out of college, in 1921, I went to work in New York but did
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not live in New York. I lived at home, with my father and mother in
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Mount Vernon, and commuted to work. I held three jobs in about seven
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months—first with the United Press, then with a public relations man
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named Wheat, then with the American Legion News Service. I disliked them
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all, and in the spring of 1922 I headed west in a Model T Ford with a
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college mate, Howard Cushman, to seek my fortune and as a way of getting
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away from what I disliked. I landed in Seattle six months later, worked
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there as a reporter on the Times for a year, was fired, shipped to
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Alaska aboard a freighter, and then returned to New York. It was on my
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return that I became an advertising man—Frank Seaman & Co., J. H.
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Newmark. In the mid-twenties, I moved into a two-room apartment at 112
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West Thirteenth Street with three other fellows, college mates of mine
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at Cornell: Burke Dowling Adams, Gustave Stubbs Lobrano, and Mitchell T.
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Galbreath. The rent was $110 a month. Split four ways it came to $27.50,
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which I could afford. My friends in those days were the fellows already
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mentioned. Also, Peter Vischer, Russell Lord, Joel Sayre, Frank Sullivan
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(he was older and more advanced but I met him and liked him), James
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Thurber, and others. I was never a part of the Algonquin group. After
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becoming connected with The New Yorker, I lunched once at the Round
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Table but didn’t care for it and was embarrassed in the presence of the
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great. I never was well acquainted with Benchley or Broun or Dorothy
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Parker or Woollcott. I did not know Don Marquis or Ring Lardner, both of
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whom I greatly admired. I was a younger man.
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